Linebattle Cup Discussion

Moderator: klifsnider

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Re: Linebattle Cup Discussion

Post by joethepro36 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:40 pm

I'm fully for referees, my only question is how many we are to add to the game. I would feel more comfortable with 2 than 1 perhaps to view the battle from each side's perspective.

Commander killing is really subjective so it should be done by referee. Something that cropped up in our last game against 29th was with fog obscuring the vision so much that we were firing almost completely blind, we ended up killing a couple of commanders this way. I could barely see an outline of the enemy line while my screen was tilted and I barely even got a single hit in across the duration of this situation. Fog is an example where a ref viewing from one side's view can be good.

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Re: Linebattle Cup Discussion

Post by klifsnider » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:55 pm

Let's keep it realistic though - more than one referee per match is not feasible.

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Re: Linebattle Cup Discussion

Post by Swan » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:16 pm

I don't like the idea of having referees in cup matches. I don't think that it is really necessary and i don't think it will actually work.

One guy spectating both lines is not going to be able to get a good view of anything and will not be able to make a good judgement on any issue. He cannot see what every member is doing or where they are aiming. He cannot see whether both lines are in cover. I don't see any benefit of having a referee that can not be achieved by viewing a demo after the match.

With a demo we can watch it as many times as we want, i'm pretty sure you can fly about and view the moment from different angles. We can make an informed decision based on that; which I think we will be more reliable than what a referee probably didn't see in a match. Maybe the referee was looking the wrong way. Maybe something happened so quickly that the referee didn't even comprehend what happened. Either way I wouldn't trust an on-the-spot decision made by a referee in the match.

We also need people who are familiar with LBC rules and who can probably half guess what a line is going to do to be referees. We then need them to dedicate about an hour for the match. That hour needs to be same hour that both clans involved in the match are available. Setting times for matches is difficult enough. Trying to make sure that three separate parties are available and on time is just introducing unnecessary complications. I agree with Joe that two referees would be better (they will be able to see more but again they don't provide anything a demo doesn't and there will be the added complication of 'What if the referees disagree?') but then organising two referees to stick around for an hour makes it unlikely that things will ever start on time.

Then there is the problem with added time. If a referee is taking the time to make decisions (maybe have one of the commanders explain what the issue was, hear the story from both sides, maybe discuss it with a second referee) and then perhaps decides that the round needs to be replayed; we are going to be adding 20-30 mins to the match. Asking players to dedicate an hour to a match is already quite an ask, not everyone has lots of time. We start extended the matches then maybe we end up with players leaving and in the final rounds we have 7vs7 or 8vs8.

I don't think we will have an issue with finding referees, I think the best idea would be to just use a nominated guy from a participating team who isn't playing in that match. So if its 42nd vs 29th we have a nominated 49th guy as referee. But again I don't see the point in them being there.

To sum up: Referees can't see everything during a match, they can't re-watch moments, they can't make a decision based on their limited view, making those decisions takes up valuable time and extends matches, organising match times and getting everyone together is going to be massive pain, someone has to sit in spec and properly watch a LB for an hour without falling asleep. Just adds too much complication for virtually no benefit and is impractical in terms of organising matches. Watching a demo after the match to deal with any issues is far more reliable and gives us the right tools and time to actually make a good decision.

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Re: Linebattle Cup Discussion

Post by Mors » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:55 pm

Any ideas regarding the possible dates for this event?

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Re: Linebattle Cup Discussion

Post by Unas » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:02 pm

I'd say that is largely dependant on the other clans but the 29th. We have quite strong numbers (compared to the last thousand months) at the moment and if we can play the matches saturday or sunday nights we'll be ready to go as soon as the last questions regarding the rules are sorted out.

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Re: Linebattle Cup Discussion

Post by CaveManJimmy » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:37 pm

With regards to the dates/days of the matches, I agree with Unas. Weekends are probably the best days to have the matches set as those days are where attendance is at its highest (well it is for the 49th anyways but it's probably the same for other regiments).

Now, with reference to the referee idea, I really don't mind what the ultimate decision is. Personally, alongside other 49th members, I would prefer to have a referee or two. I mean yes, it has it's positives and negatives (like I said on the other comment I made) but so does having to rely on watching demos later on. Like Swan said, the referee cannot watch every individual in the line battle; in fact, it would be impossible to ensure that everyone was shooting at the center of lines as it would mean that the referee would need to spectate and view everyones crosshairs (can be up to 40 people) which will not only be very difficult, but it means that the referee will not be able to watch over other gameplay and rules.

What I think we should do when people kill the commanders!!!! (This applies if we don't allow commander killing)

Right, although not very "inventive", maybe it should be a rule that if a commander is killed, the person who killed the commander has to be slayed. Or it could be that if a commander is killed on one team, the other commander has to be slayed in order to "even out" the confusion. Personally, I think slaying the commander killer is more favourable as being repetitively slayed for killing the commander will become very tedious and boring for those purposely shooting commanders .

I mean it shouldn't be an immediate slay because if the commander is killed from a great distance and/or the line is small (around 6 guys) then I feel that the guy who killed the commander should be spared as long as he claims that it was an accident.

But this is all where referees come in handy! I mean they don't have to watch every individual but rather watch the kills screen (names shown at the top right of the screen), judge the distance and size of the line and then come to the conclusion whether to slay or spare. This can be done whilst ensuring that both lines are obeying basic rules such as cover firing.

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